E2: Know your Rights: The Law and Remote Work

Episode #2 Know your Rights: The Law and Remote Work

[00:00:00] erika-bergen: I'm joined today by Sharon Cohen. She's an expert in employment law, and she's going to help us understand what our rights are, and some of the legal issues. landscape around remote work and the workplace.

She has worked hybrid herself for many years and she's a mom of two kids. So she also brings a personal experience that gives her a really unique perspective and lens in this discussion. So welcome Sharon, I'm excited you're here and please introduce yourself to our listeners.

[00:00:54] Sharon Cohen: Thank you so much. I'm really excited to be here. Thanks for having me. I'm a partner at the law from Davis and Gilbert, New York. I've been practicing as an employment attorney for, uh, For over 10 years now, my practice focuses primarily on advising employers and companies around employment laws around the country, and that ranges from hiring to firing and everything in between, 

since 2020.

A big focus of my practice has been guiding employers through the questions they have around remote work. COVID 19 pandemic really, threw a monkey wrench into the way the workplace has been structured and many companies ended up rethinking their workplace models. And they've gone into a few different models, which I'm happy to talk about.

In our discussion, but it's it's really opened up an entire dialogue from a legal perspective about things to be thinking about, but also just employ morale perspectives and just where can you get the best talent? Is it only in the places where you have offices, or is it around the country and what policies and practices are companies doing to retain talent that thinks about remote work flexibility?

[00:02:09] Erika Bergen: Oh, you're so much in there So,

[00:02:11] Sharon Cohen: Yeah, 

[00:02:11] Erika Bergen: so 

yeah. So let's go into the models that you're seeing. That's it seems like a good place To start. Okay. Yeah, 

[00:02:19] Sharon Cohen: back in 2020, when every employer pretty much had to just, you know, switch gears to remote work for a few months, you know, a lot of them ended up rethinking, okay, we used to always think you can't do your work unless you're in the office. And there is certainly value. To working in an office.

I personally I know you mentioned I'm hybrid. I personally see a lot of value in working in an office because it allows you to have collaboration with your colleagues. That face to face interaction allows you to be, you know, visible to your colleagues. If you have questions, you can just. Walk and knock on their door versus sending an email asking for a call. Um, but what ended up happening is it went into essentially three models. The first model was company said, everyone's back in the office five days a week. That's what I want. That's been our model. And when I say office, I mean sort of a traditional office type. I'm not talking about, you know, retail or a supermarket where the essential job functions require you to be in the workplace. The second model was some company said, you know what, remote work works for us. We're getting rid of our office space lease and we're going fully remote. And they went completely remote. they don't have a designated office space. Maybe they will rent a WeWork space and they've got employees around the country. And then the third model is companies that went with a hybrid approach. Where they said, okay, we want, we, we see the value in remote work flexibility, but we also see the value of having employees in person in the office and that collaboration and they'll do a hybrid model of we want employees in the office a certain number of days a week. Um, and then they can work remotely the, you know, the remaining two or three days, and they either will do anchor days where they say everyone should be in Mondays and Wednesdays, or they'll say, you choose the three days. Those are essentially the three models I've seen and, and over the last four years, it's taken some companies time to.

Jump into that third model. Some companies kind of just stayed in the sort of limbo of we're all remote. And then it, it, you know, it took some time to, to say to their employees, we want you back in the office and we want you back in the office a certain number of days a week.

[00:04:36] Erika Bergen: and so, and I've experienced another kind of that hybrid model plus where 

depending on the role and the right fit for the role, the 

company that I worked for was willing to consider fully remote workers, even though, you 

majority of the workforce was hybrid. And I sort of fell into that category of fully remote, 

even though everybody else was was mostly, you know, hybrid or fully in the office.

[00:05:04] Sharon Cohen: Yes, yeah, there's certainly companies who do that, that they'll have that hybrid, but then let's say, you know, and they'll do that for people who are working in the state where they have an office, but maybe they

hired someone fully remote in another state and. person is really, really valuable and their job functions don't need them to be in the office.

I mean, companies had some companies did have to 

make a decision of do we want everybody in the office and we don't want to make those exceptions. There's also legal exceptions that may need to be made. Someone may not be able to come into the office due to a medical condition. And as a, you know, from a legal perspective, an employer has to grant a reasonable accommodations for qualifying medical conditions, as long as it doesn't cause an undue hardship, and you're not eliminating their essential job functions. So there are exceptions to that as well, where even in the hybrid model, or the we want you in the office 5 days a week model, some employers will have to. Make exceptions. One common exception is someone is pregnant and they're immunocompromised or they're on bedrest and they'll let them, you know, allow them to continue to work remotely, assuming it doesn't,, eliminate an essential job function and it's not causing an undue hardship on them.

[00:06:20] Erika Bergen: what I've seen happen, and I'm curious from the legal standpoint, what is happening behind the scenes is that companies during the pandemic had flexibility. Right and they were open to more flexibility and then like you said they kind of got Like in this limbo state of trying to figure out what are we going to do next?

And so the policies are very fluid they seem to be changing so where there was flexibility now They're retrenching and pulling back and saying we want people in the office I have friends who have experienced this They've already moved, they've already either moved out of the city, or they've moved out of a comfortable commuting distance.

And so when those policies get rolled back, it really puts them in a difficult, it puts their job in jeopardy. So

[00:07:01] Sharon Cohen: Mm

[00:07:02] Erika Bergen: the question is, is there a legal reason why that back and forth is happening, And then what can employees do? to protect themselves if they have made a decision to move away from their office.

[00:07:14] Sharon Cohen: Right. Yeah, there's no legal reason behind it I think it's just businesses looking at their operations model and deciding what works best for the business, but also trying to balance employee morale. And I think that's why some companies, it really took them until 2023.

Like a lot of companies, it wasn't really until 2020 fall of 2023

[00:07:37] Erika Bergen: Yeah. 

[00:07:38] Sharon Cohen: started saying, come back to the office. And I think it was just a sensitivity that. became accustomed to it. And you know, until 2022, there were 

still a lot of covid spikes going on. And there was, I think for those first two years, it was just from a safety perspective, they didn't want anybody in the office that wasn't comfortable from a co, you know, in terms of 

catching covid. And then after the pandemic was really gone, it was just okay that that safety issue's gone. But now it's a, our employees are accustomed to this. And we as a business are accustomed to this, let's time it when it's post labor day. So I think it was more logistical and employee morale. Legally, an employee can do to protect themselves, I would say is When they are getting, let's say you get hired by a company and the job offer is you can work remotely from X location in your offer letter negotiate that clause that you are being hired to work out of that location and that. You would have good reason to resign if you were required to move a certain number of miles outside that location that would give you good reason to resign. That would trigger and notice, for example. So it gives you that. safety net of like three months notice or three months salary continuation to resign and try and find a new job.

It really gives you that notice period legally an employer can always decide I'm going to change the locations where I want my employees the way you can protect yourself is trying to negotiate in your letter parameters around where you're working and what safety net you can have if the company decides that it's going to want you to move and a lot of senior executives have that they'll have what we call this good reason trigger like a company can terminate them for cause the executive can resign for a good reason and one of the good reasons would be if you're required to move from A certain number of miles outside your typical work location and then what that good reason trigger will trigger is certain contractual obligations like it could be notice or it could be severance and that's really a negotiations game at that point

[00:09:55] Erika Bergen: Okay, yeah, and I would imagine that happens even if you're already inside of the company too. I mean, I've seen that where, you know, if you, you have to get approval, you have to, right, there's a whole approval process. Now, would you recommend that same approach if you have a hybrid setup? Where you could contractually, in your offer letter, say, I will only, like, whatever the policy is today, even if the policy changes, I, I want, I'm agreeing to this policy.

Three days in the office, two days remote maybe. Okay.

[00:10:23] Sharon Cohen: yeah I think for that when you're in a hybrid setup the company may not be as amenable to that because if it's hybrid you're already in. the location, I, think the good reason trigger for having to move like to a new state common to put that in a good reason. Uh, clause, I think, I mean, I always say it doesn't always hurt to ask.

It's at the company's discretion if they'll agree to it. They may be more likely to agree to it if it's a good reason trigger for having to move states versus a good reason trigger of having to, you know, Being able to resign because now you have to be in the office five days a week as opposed to three days a week. I suspect they may not be as open to that because then they have to grant exceptions like that for everybody. And I don't think it would be sustainable for a business to do that, but there could always be extenuating circumstances. It's always important to be mindful of employers need to be treating employees consistently. So when a request like that comes in, They're going to be mindful of, well,, you're not the only person on our hybrid policy, we've got hundreds of employees on the hybrid policy. So if we grant you this, we're going to have to grant it to others and they may not feel comfortable doing that.

[00:11:37] Erika Bergen: That makes sense. So just build that relationship with your boss. Make yourself so valuable that you can ask for it. Even.

[00:11:44] Sharon Cohen: say there's legal and then there's practical advice and you're 

spot on. I think a lot of it with remote work 

flexibility, it's going to depend on the culture of the company. Some 

companies that have this hybrid model, if the company has a hybrid model, it trickles down to department by department and the manager in the department will sometimes set the expectations of, yeah, the company requires three days a week.

Okay. But as long as you're getting your work done, I'm not going to ding you if you only came in two days that week, as long as you get your job done. So I agree with you establishing that level of trust your manager is critical. Speaking from personal experience before the pandemic, was a working mom of young of one child at the time, and needed flexibility and I just got my job done and I would come in early and I would leave early and my boss never questioned like when I was a bit, and there were certain days I might've had to work remotely.

I even remember when I was pregnant with my son, it was the last two weeks of December, 2019, and I just worked remotely. And I mean, I technically didn't ask. I just did it. And it wasn't even a question of, well, you have to be in the office. It was, there was already that established level of trust that I would get my work done, but it was never an issue. So it's proving yourself as, as responsible and dependable. It can go really a long way in getting yourself that flexibility that you may need.

[00:13:15] Erika Bergen: So it's, it's when you can advocate for yourself, ask for it in writing, right? Get an agreement in place or at least let people know where you stand. So it's not a surprise when you start asking for some flexibility and then

the common sense of just. Be a good worker, right? Show up the way that,

[00:13:33] Sharon Cohen: Yes,

[00:13:34] Erika Bergen: way that we all want to Show up our best when we go to work.

[00:13:37] Sharon Cohen: exactly. Mm-hmm

[00:13:38] Erika Bergen: So speaking about like work and workplaces I heard a conversation Around and this was sort of more in the height of the pandemic around this gray space in workers comp and slip and falls and and how that's handled When the worker isn't physically in the designated office and I know that insurance and workers comp is not your area of expertise, but it does, raise the question of what is the workplace, when we're working remote? What rights do we have? as remote workers, What protections do we have that we might not realize or might get lost in us given that we're spending most of our time in our homes.

[00:14:18] Sharon Cohen: Of course. So, common misconception I heard a lot, when companies went to fully remote was, well, they're working remotely Colorado, but they report to New York still, so they're a New York employee, and that's a common misconception. From your own internal tracking perspectives, consider them as a report to New York employee, but legally they're in Colorado and they're working in Colorado, they're covered by the employment laws and the employment law protections of the state in which they primarily work. that's how these employment laws oftentimes work is the state in which you work. going to be the law that generally governs. Sometimes certain laws will have what we call extraterritorial application. So maybe you work in one state, but you report to an office in the other state. Maybe you would get protections in the state you report to, but at a minimum, you would be protected by the laws in the state you work in. And so if you're in a state that has more generous employment laws, I'll give you one example. New York is a state where, vacation. The employer can set the policy of a use it or lose it policy. So you get 20 days of vacation a year. If you don't use it, it's forfeited at the end of the year. Legally an employer in New York can have that policy in place as long as they just put it in their policy. California is very different. California, once you've accrued the vacation, it's considered an earned wage and it can't be forfeited at any time. So what that means is if you go start working primarily out of California, a protection you have to that vacation that was earned and something that the employer should make sure they're complying with. it's,

[00:16:00] Erika Bergen: Hmm. 

[00:16:01] Sharon Cohen: that's one thing to be mindful of. It's the state in which you work, that's going to govern other protections are, you know, it's just important to remember when you work remotely, even if it's in 

your home, that space is essentially. your workspace as if you were in the office.

So the same policies that your employer has apply to you, whether you are in the office or working 

remotely. So that's, 

confidentiality policies, anti harassment policies, behaving professionally and appropriately with your colleagues. I think a, a very interesting trend we saw when the pandemic first hit was there was a lot more. of Anti harassment policy violations of said something inappropriate on a zoom call, or I was texting with a colleague because people started communicating a lot more via text message and they said something inappropriate employees would forget that just because you're not in the office doesn't mean that the company's policies and rules around professionalism and respect and being appropriate don't apply. That's important to remember as well. If someone is saying something inappropriate to you, who you work with, like you should raise that and escalate that to human resources. It doesn't matter if it wasn't in the traditional office. , it used to be that the common misconception was, well, we're at the after party of the holiday party.

That doesn't count, right? And I say, yes, it does. Even if the, your employer's not sponsoring that after party, whenever you work with your colleagues, you have to behave professionally and appropriately. And if someone. Is inappropriate. That's a problem. The company has to look into and remediate. same thing happens if somebody engages in inappropriate behavior over zoom or teams or via slack or via personal text message.

[00:17:41] Erika Bergen: are you seeing that as much today? 

[00:17:43] Sharon Cohen: not as much. I 

mean, unfortunately it's still 

there and it happens. 

I don't think there's like been this increase. I just think it 

was more noticeable when the pandemic 

first hit. I think because there were just 

zoom calls and zoom calls and zoom calls. there were 

[00:18:01] Erika Bergen: right? Right. Yeah,

[00:18:05] Sharon Cohen: We don't, you know, employee employees don't do that anymore, but there were like in June 2020, colleagues 

still wanted to see each other, not in a traditional meeting, but rather in like, let's just hang out and talk. We'll do a virtual happy hour. And what would happen is they'd be talking and somebody would say, Oh, I see that in the 

background.

And maybe an inappropriate comment was being made. And it's because. Employees would let their guard down. They would think, okay, I'm not in an official work meeting. I'm, I'm not saying they, they explicitly thought this. It's sort of like a subconscious blind spot that would happen.

[00:18:40] Erika Bergen: I get that and I could see that especially for people who are newer in the workforce, too And you're entering a new 

You know one of your first jobs and you're working remote a part of the time you might might not might not make the connection That oh, I'm still Technically governed by the laws of my workplace Mm hmm.

[00:18:59] Sharon Cohen: I mean, a court case that came out in California that said it even applies.

personal social media accounts if someone posts something on a personal social media account that targets an employee that they work with, and it's of a sexually charged 

nature, that what happens outside, you know, I always say what happens outside the workplace pours directly into the workplace. And that was found to potentially create a hostile work environment. It's all going to depend on the, the comments made, , the facts and circumstances of what was said, how often it was said. legally speaking, there could be triggers of liability of a hostile work environment under the law based on conduct that happens in a non traditional office environment.

[00:19:42] Erika Bergen: you mentioned before that the employment laws are governed by the state in which you do where you're primarily working So where could somebody learn more about 

the employment laws of their state? Especially if their state 

is not the state where their office is located

[00:19:58] Sharon Cohen: Yeah. I mean, Google,

[00:20:01] Erika Bergen: Yeah,

[00:20:01] Sharon Cohen: friend. Um, sometimes the DOL website has that. I mean, I would always say if you were, you know, if you're getting a job offer in

state, you're not familiar with, I mean, it's, it doesn't hurt to have an employment lawyer look at your offer letter and they can just. Take a look to see if everything seems okay and clear. I think thing to think about is, and this is something 

I've advised a number of employer, clients on is when they hire employees in different states, there could be specific restrictions out around post employment, non competes or non solicits. And. One state may be very employer friendly on it. Another state could be like California where it's explicitly prohibited. when you, when usually when an employee is hired, they get an offer letter and they'll oftentimes get an NDA that prohibits them from disclosing confidential information. but it also have post employment restrictions like you can't compete with us or you can't solicit our employees or you can't solicit our clients.

You can't service our clients the state you're in. Some of those restrictions maybe flat out prohibited, or you have to earn a certain compensation for them to be enforceable or legally permissible. So having an employment lawyer look at that, they'll know whether those restrictions in your agreement are okay to have or not okay to have, and they can guide you through that.

[00:21:18] Erika Bergen: I think there's this this conception that you know, well, I don't Make enough or my job isn't senior enough to really warrant having an employment lawyer. What are your thoughts around? 

When it's appropriate to bring somebody in

[00:21:31] Sharon Cohen: would say, something very specific, like what we talked about, a good reason trigger, that is not a standard clause. So if you want something that isn't going to be standard in an agreement and you want it, it's always good to have an employment lawyer counsel you through it. Um, of like, the language you would put in there. For example, a run of the mill offer letter, though, I don't think you necessarily need an employment lawyer. It obviously, it depends on the facts and circumstances of your position in your role. If there is a post employment non compete or a non solicitor or something like that, and you anticipate wanting to go work for a competitor, if you were to leave this company, I do think it's worth sometimes, Talking to an employment lawyer and it could be a quick hour conversation and some employment lawyers will do like a free consultation um, obviously it depends, on every business. But know, I think it doesn't hurt to just get a gut check, um, on that. I mean, it really depends. And, and I'll also say, you also need to be practical. Sometimes you just talk to a lawyer and they just tell you, Here's what you're signing and agreeing to, but not giving you recommended changes. Versus telling you, here's what you should ask for and negotiate because someone who's an entry level employee, a company is not going to be interested in negotiating back and forth

[00:22:50] Erika Bergen: right? 

[00:22:51] Sharon Cohen: restrictive covenant agreement. Um, and, and an employment lawyer can walk you through the practicalities of, okay, this is in there, but it's probably not enforceable. 

And. There's nothing in here that you would be on the hook for their legal fees if they tried to enforce it. I mean, there's a lot of legal nuances around it. , so I, I would say it really depends. But if you don't think you're gonna 

it's ever gonna concern you to go work for a competitor, it really depends on the type of job you have.

If your job is tied to a very specific industry, And there's a true non compete in there and you're concerned about the, you know, you being subject to that. It's always worth it to talk to an attorney, but just a run of the mail offer letter. I don't think necessarily needs a employment attorney to review it.

[00:23:33] Erika Bergen: Yeah, the non compete I'll add a personal anecdote. It's not me personally, but someone that I I know Started a job and it was a really aggressive non compete and they had not gotten counsel on that and they weren't necessarily senior in, in their career either, but it prohibited them from working for, with any competitors within like a 20 mile radius.

Then this was a very niche industry that this person was in, which basically mean when they left, they had to move, to a different city in order to work 20 mile radius. So, um, you know, that is something that. You don't necessarily think about because you're not thinking ahead But that's interesting in a remote setting Especially if it's impacting where you are working and not necessarily where your physical office is located Yeah Mm

[00:24:24] Sharon Cohen: because companies have Started hiring all over the country and they're servicing clients now all over the country. The non competes aren't even necessarily being limited to the state, you know, the 20 mile radius of the office. It, I mean, it's going to depend on the business that they're in, but it could be a nationwide non compete, right?

[00:24:46] Erika Bergen: hmm 

[00:24:47] Sharon Cohen: even just, you have to move. It might be, you just can't even work in this industry at all. Now, whether a nationwide non compete is enforceable is really going to be fact specific. 

I think that's where talking to an employment lawyer is going to be helpful for you to understand how enforceable is this and is it a problem if I agree to this or should 

I, is it worth trying to negotiate something else?

Sometimes you can negotiate. Okay, you want me to sit on the sidelines? You got to pay my salary during that period. Massachusetts actually has a law providing that for a non compete to be enforceable. have to pay their salary during the non compete period. Not every state is like that. Of course, are more likely to enforce it if it's going if it has that, you know, sort of non compete consideration, but in Massachusetts for it to even be enforceable, it would have to have that. so I, I agree with you. I think if. if It could significantly limit your, future opportunities. And it's hard to, to your point, you don't think about that when you're first getting hired by a company. Cause nobody necessarily joins a company saying, okay, I'm going to be out of here in two years.

It's

[00:25:53] Erika Bergen: Right, you 

[00:25:54] Sharon Cohen: relationship

[00:25:55] Erika Bergen: the best intentions, of course, 

[00:25:58] Sharon Cohen: you get like a bunch of paperwork to sign and, and you just sign it, you just, you're happy to join. You're not 

necessarily thinking of those legal

[00:26:05] Erika Bergen: right? and you don't want to you.

don't want to make yourself look difficult,

right? Trying to push back on legal language. So, yeah, I think this is, Go ahead. 

[00:26:15] Sharon Cohen: is, 

that, that hesitation and , I think I once heard of this and it, and it was really a fluke, but I once heard of an,

uh, someone who was senior leader who got hired, sent comments on, uh, restrictive covenants agreement and offer letter. And then the company said, sorry, we don't want to move forward with you.

I mean, that's really an extreme 

example. I mean, honestly, if that's the reaction that employer had, wasn't the right place for that person to go work for anyway. But I definitely appreciate the hesitancy of, are they going to perceive me as being a difficult employee and wanting the balance? Of, you know, you know, marking up an agreement, to address provisions that are run of the mill. Um, and if it's a standard clause, I usually say if something is standard , it's really not worth pushing back on it. But if some, , something like a post-employment non-compete where you may not be able to work in the industry, or you may have to move to keep working in that industry, that can have real ramifications for you.

[00:27:17] Erika Bergen: Yeah, well, hopefully this 

empowers people to feel like they have 

at least they should at least understand The language that's being even if they decide not to do anything about it 

at least Understand what your contract says and the implications long term. 

So let me just

[00:27:33] Sharon Cohen: put it aside

[00:27:34] Erika Bergen: Yeah.

[00:27:35] Sharon Cohen: I'll be talking to someone who's living in their company and they're like, I don't even remember where my offer letter or my agreement is and they can't like go ask. I mean, you can technically go ask HR for it.

Um, actually in some states. You can ask for a copy of your personnel file, and they have to give you a copy of your personnel file. but again, once you ask that question, it raises red flags to HR, or why 

are you asking for a copy of your personnel file? And it's just, so I always say, you sign, put it somewhere where you know where it is and your documents so that if you ever need to look back on it, should you need to leave the company, it's easily accessible.

[00:28:09] Erika Bergen: Mm hmm. And probably not on your work computer, probably on your own personal drive, right? So you have access to it. Um, all right. So let me just ask you because we're recording this as of December 4th, 2024. We just had a presidential election, and we'll have an inauguration coming up in a couple of weeks.

You know, there are a lot of things in law and policy that shift 

with administrations, right? And so I'm curious if there's anything that you're keeping an eye on. 

As we look into 2025, whether it's because of 

a new administration coming in, or maybe just other workplace dynamics that you see, economic dynamics, like what are you, what are you keeping an eye on?

[00:28:49] Sharon Cohen: I think we should expect a big shift in how the new federal administration is going to handle employment issues. It's not certainly in the remote workspace, but one example being there was, you know, certain regulations passed by the Biden administration and the DOL that would have raised the salary threshold to a much higher level to be exempt from overtime under the federal law that was. Struck down ultimately. Um, but you know, , I don't think the new administration is necessarily going to appeal that, which means state salary thresholds are going to apply. But aside from that, I think the national labor relations board makeup is going to change. So there were a lot of more employee in union friendly decisions that came out by the national labor relations board over the past four years relating to workplace rights and. together, um, employment agreements, things like that, I think there's going to be a shift in the NLRB in those decisions. 

That's going to be more employer friendly. I think there will also be a more scrutiny on workplace DE& I efforts. think that what happened. With the Supreme Court's decision striking down affirmative action, which was in the education context, we're going to see that trickle down into the employment context as well.

And there's, you know, there were already a lot of lawsuits being filed around the country, challenging workplace D, E, and I efforts. But I think the next administration, you might see more scrutiny in that. So what that's going to result in is when there's less employee protection At the federal level, you're going to see more employee protections probably being passed at the state and city level, um, that that pendulum kind of, it swings one way at the federal level.

So it swings another way at the state and local level to try and protect employee rights. The legislatures will start doing that. What particular area I can say. You know, one area is the FTC tried to implement a rule that would have banned non competes altogether. Uh, court struck that rule down. 

I think it's unlikely that the new administration is going to appeal that decision. So what that means is non compete matters are going to continue to be a matter for state legislatures and state courts to, , decide on. there has been over the past, Five, 10 years, a lot more employee protections around enforceability or permissibility of post employment non competes.

It wouldn't be surprising if more restrictions around that are passed at the state level. in terms of remote work, I don't know if there's necessarily anything on the horizon, but, and this isn't tied to the administration, but I, I do know that there have been some laws passed, but Thinking about remote work, one being in New York, for example, about two years ago, the state passed a law that, , it was always the case that employers had to put posters in the workplace, advising employees of certain rights. so New York passed a law saying you have to make those workplace posters electronically available to employees. And you can do that by putting intranet, for example, but you need to be making it. Available to them electronically, and I think the justification for this was employees weren't in the office as much to see those posters.

A lot of people were working remotely. I actually had a number of clients already doing that because for that exact reason, they said we don't have employees in an office and or we're hiring this person remotely out in Illinois. There are technically workplace posters I need to, have posted, but I don't have an office.

So I'm going to put it on my intranet or I'm going to email it to them so that they have copies. So New York actually passed a law essentially requiring that. , it's possible other States will have other laws like that as well. Past.

[00:32:48] Erika Bergen: Interesting, a lot to, To keep an eye on, we'll have to have you back

[00:32:52] Sharon Cohen: Yeah, 

[00:32:53] Erika Bergen: as we see how these, how these changes, 

 Might be shaping people's experience in the workplace. I don't know. How do you keep it all straight in your head? All of it? All of these different laws in different states. 

Like what?

[00:33:04] Sharon Cohen: know it's, it's, you know, and I think I know it all. And then I

learned something new every day and it's constantly changing. So I always have to be on my feet. Like I get, you know, alerts, , on employment, it's called employment law daily. And every day I get alerts on certain things and I just make sure I'm keeping up with everything. but it's really interesting and I love it and it keeps me on my feet and my job is never boring. There's always a story and a person behind each of the questions I get more often than,

[00:33:34] Erika Bergen: but I also, like counsel 

[00:33:36] Sharon Cohen: isn't just focused on, okay, legally this is what you 

have to do. I try and help clients think about, okay, these are the legal implications and the things you need to be 

thinking about from a legal perspective, but let's balance that

with. The business perspective of employee morale and your culture, I wouldn't be doing my job if I wasn't thinking about those aspects, because you can't look at these things in a vacuum of like legally, what should you be thinking about? She'll be also be thinking about morale and culture. So I had one client who said, what if we decide everybody has to be in an office, including people who we hired out in other states. And, you know, I walked them through the legal implications about that, about certain. You know, medical accommodations they may need to grant, but I, also said, I think you need to be practical. This isn't something you can, spring on your employees and say, be in the office in a month that there's practically speaking employees who are in another state. How could they uproot their lives in a month? You had to sell a home. You have to get a new lease. If they have children, they have to arrange for a new school.

[00:34:37] Erika Bergen: hmm 

[00:34:37] Sharon Cohen: I try and help them think through those as well. Because at the end of the day, employers, they don't just want to get it right legally.

They want to retain talent and they want to retain good talent. So keeping employees happy is also a consideration as well.

[00:34:54] Erika Bergen: Well, let's have a part two in a couple months and check back in with you. In the meantime, 

if you want to learn more about Sharon or get in touch with her, we'll have her details in the show notes. 

Thank you, Sharon.

[00:35:06] Sharon Cohen: my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

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