E5: Returning to Remote Work After Baby

Episode #5: Post-Partum Recovery and Returning to Remote Work After Baby

All rights to: Work It, Remote podcast

Host: Erika Bergen

Published: December 26, 2024

[00:00:00] Erika Bergen: This episode is really near and dear to my heart. I have two young kids and return to work and postpartum was so unique for each of my babies and also so complex with my first baby. I was working.

in a physical office with my second baby I had already transitioned into becoming a remote worker. And I'm really excited about this conversation today. Because 

One of the reasons I started this podcast Is because I noticed in being a remote worker that so much of the advice both work and life advice that I received Felt like it was falling short.

It wasn't taking into account 

the experience of working remote and so with this episode you'll find that it's 360. It covers you as someone who's just welcomed a baby and what you need and also how you sort of transition that into preparing yourself for work. I hope you feel like we've taken the care to think about you as a whole person and your whole experience.

My belief is that in order to return to work and make that transition successfully, you really need to maximize that postpartum time so that you're doing what you're supposed to do, which is taking care of yourself and that'll set you up for success. Now, I have a fabulous guest today that I'm going to interview and talk with who's really going to add a lot to the discussion. She's a postpartum doula. She was actually my postpartum doula and she's so knowledgeable and so empathetic and just bring so much calm to what is a storm in our lives sometimes.

But before we get into this conversation and I welcome her, I just want to do a quick disclaimer. which is whether this is your first time or your fifth time having a baby, you're welcoming a new child into your life. And that's a big deal. Now, we're going to be talking about postpartum recovery and self care, but we're also going to talk about how to prepare yourself to return to remote work.

And if you're not in the headspace right now to think about returning to work, then save this podcast and listen to it when you're ready. There is so much going on in your life right now. I really don't want this to become. One more thing you have to do or worry about or another reason to feel like you're not doing your absolute best because we know that you are doing your absolute best.

So give yourself the gift of time on this podcast and listen to it whenever you're ready. We'll be here. 

. Let's get into it. I'm here with Jarielle campbell, owner of Call Your Doula. I'm going to introduce you for a little bit, Jerrielle, okay, and brag on you.

and her team my postpartum doula support after my second baby, Aubrey. And I was introduced to the idea of postpartum doula support from a friend. And it really was a life saving experience for me. I'll just give some context. When I had my second baby, I had just moved to Cleveland, Ohio in January.

eight months pregnant. And so my postpartum was wild because, I had just been living in a new state with no family, friends, two months before I went on maternity leave, I had gotten promoted the weekend before,I went into labor. We had just put an offering on a new house in Cleveland.

And then also, I don't know if you know all of this, my daughter was having a tough time transitioning my four year old at the time into her new school, and my husband, we moved for his job, and so, you know, he was ramping up and You know, had all the new job anxieties, right? And so by the time I gave birth, I was exhausted.

I had nothing left. you and your team became a huge part of my recovery and being able to take care of myself, being able to get support and just feel a little bit more. Human and have a little bit of the headspace that you need during that time to Really bond and do the things that you're so you know that you're quote unquote supposed to be doing during that time

welcome Jerry.

I'll thank you for joining today I really couldn't think of a better person to have this conversation with as we try to support other women in their postpartum care and Returning to work.

[00:04:33] Jarriel Campbell: Yeah. I know. Thank you so much for the warm. Welcome. I had no idea. All of that was happening for you. Like no clue at all. I knew you had just moved to Cleveland, but all of the things that you have, I was exhausted just listening to the list. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I had no 

[00:04:48] Erika Bergen: I've tried to forget that part.

[00:04:50] Jarriel Campbell: so well. You could never tell.

Yeah. Oh wow. Yeah. So thank you so much for having me. I'm excited about this conversation too.

[00:04:58] Erika Bergen: So tell us, so for all those who don't know what a doula and postpartum doula is, can you just level set and educate us all on what that means 

[00:05:05] Jarriel Campbell: Yeah, so I love the beautiful analogy of a couple getting married. So you find the love of your life. You're getting married and you are overwhelmed, right? There are things you have to do and things that you don't know that you have to do. And you guys decide to hire a wedding planner and your wedding planner will be your guide and your coach.

They will walk alongside you. They will let you know what to do and what timeframe introduce you to vendors and really help you to center and focus on the love of your life and your big day. And that's the same thing that doulas do but only in like the maternity kind of space So if you are expecting a baby and just had a baby and you are overwhelmed you have no idea what to do You're waiting by the door for your handbook to come in for first time parents and it doesn't because there's no manual What you would probably do is want to hire a coach or expert, somebody who can walk alongside you and your partner throughout this journey.

And so that's what we do as do lists. We really help to people with feeling confident, being able to advocate for themselves, being able to navigate their options, whether that's home birth or hospital birth. If you are expecting and then once you come home with your new baby, What will that rhythm be between you, your partner, your family?

And so we are there to support you from pregnancy all the way through the postpartum period. Um, I do want to give a disclaimer to that there are doulas and other parts of having a baby growing your family. So there are adoption doulas, fertility doulas, deaf doulas, bereavement doulas, the list goes on and on and on. Um, I'm specifically in the birth and postpartum space. So that's what I can speak to very 

[00:06:44] Erika Bergen: Okay. Yeah. That's good to, I actually didn't realize that distinction, so

thank you,

 so Physiologically with a woman's body in postpartum. Can you help us understand what is happening? 

with the body that we should be mindful of in our recovery?

[00:07:02] Jarriel Campbell: I think the biggest thing is like the change in hormones because you have had a human living inside of you. And so there's been like double the amount of hormones. And so once you give birth, that baby is now on the outside of you. And so your hormone levels will typically change. I know for me, like mine plummeted. And so I could definitely feel like. The energy of like having a natural vaginal delivery, I did feel that for a little while. And then after a while it started to feel like I got hit by a bus. And so I could feel like my hormones changing. I could feel like the physical 14 hour thing that we just went through slowly creeping in on me.

And I just felt like I just was like knocked out for a while. Right. So I do feel like physically it was a lot. And then mentally you're preparing yourself for a lot as well. And the mental load is the invisible load, but I feel like it's just so important because for months and months, you've been thinking about labor.

Potentially you've been hearing warranted, asked for maybe unasked for stories about other people's labors, right. Inverse. And so you're processing that. For black women were also processing things that we know about maternal and infant mortality and how that pertains to us. Right? So mentally, you're processing a lot as you're going through the process.

Then you're also thinking about, okay, well, how can I get something different? What do I want and talking to your partner about that? Right? So you're processing all of those things. And then let's be honest, birth can go ways to Sunday. So for some of my clients, they do get to experience a very positive and nourishing birthing experience. And some of them feel good about that. And then some of them feel guilty about that because now they've had an experience that they wish their friends and family had had, and they have to go back and tell that story. So, um, There's guilt there. So there's so much going on just emotionally and mentally on top of hormonally and like the physical where that gets to you as you could deliver a baby.

So I just want people to know that it's okay to take time to do nothing and go nowhere. Um, I know on social media there's always this kind of step back culture where people are working out at home and working out around their pool and like Trying to snap back after labor, and I feel like, honestly, it's a good time just to process to do nothing and to be gentle and compassionate with yourself.

[00:09:27] Erika Bergen: Yeah, It is hard to do that to put it into practice with my first, it was like, Oh, maternity leave.you know, you have all these plans of what you're going to do, right? But, um, the second's a little different because there's another child in the house

 you really do need to think proactively about how you're gonna squeeze in the rest 

 I knew this going into it, that it was going to be tough. And so I had. started to think about what do I need and I had been encouraged to by some good friends.

 like you need a plan for support But that's not always easy that doesn't come naturally to many of us as women right to think about What support do I need and to go out and ask for that support?

 when you're working with clients and I know you do a lot of also community work too, outside of your client based work, what do you find as being this is a two part question, one, the biggest barrier and women asking for support, maybe even identifying the support that they need. And then two.

Receiving it.

[00:10:27] Jarriel Campbell: Yeah. I think as a first time mom, I can totally relate to being in the postpartum period and being overwhelmed because I didn't know that there was anything to prepare for. So I think just even being aware that there's something to prepare for because a lot of people tell you prepare for labor, prepare for birth.

And so that's what I focused on. How do I want to show up in the labor room? What kind of birth do I want to have? How do I want, you know, this to look with me and my partner? What kind of support do I want from my doula? So then once my baby was home with me, I'm like, Oh, wow, the postpartum period lasts so much longer than labor.

And I didn't think about this at all. I didn't meal prep and do all of the crockpot meals. So that way I don't have to think about dinner constantly. I didn't go to lactation classes, so I was struggling to breastfeed and didn't know why or why it wasn't as easy as it looked on Instagram or who to call or who to ask, right? And my birth doula, I mean, I could ask her questions, but at that point we had pretty much past the point of her support. My baby was here. She did a postpartum follow up and she was on to her next client. So I think really going through a postpartum plan could be helpful because it can start to bring up the things that you don't even know you need to prepare for in the postpartum period or haven't 

[00:11:38] Erika Bergen: Mm hmm.

[00:11:39] Jarriel Campbell: I also think too, that a lot of people are afraid to ask for support because of what they think it means to be a parent and to be an adult. A lot of people feel like parenting and adulting means self sacrificing and to have some level of discomfort or, you know, it's supposed to be hard, is what people think. Oh, this is supposed to be hard. It's not always supposed to be fun. Like, this is how parenting goes, right? But I think the truth is that a lot of us Can ask for support and can lean into support and will be very surprised about the way that people want to show up for us and just don't know how and would be really excited to know that you want them to be a part of your village, right? And to your point about moving, finding a village in your new space, right? So you move from one state to another state, so maybe you don't have family around and so making the plan to tap into. co workers or maybe it's family or maybe it's a good, you know, girl group. Um, I've even had girlfriends from around the country hire me to take care of their friend in Ohio who they couldn't be with but wanted her to have postpartum support.

So thinking through the gifts that we give people for baby showers and gender reveals, let's maybe not buy, you know, the thing that the baby is going to grow out of in five seconds and maybe let's get them the village and the community and support that they 

[00:13:05] Erika Bergen: Ooh 

[00:13:06] Jarriel Campbell: So

investing in that for other people could be very 

[00:13:08] Erika Bergen: Yeah, I love I love that idea. Rethinking how we gift

And

[00:13:14] Jarriel Campbell: Cause we're

such

[00:13:15] Erika Bergen: yeah, we do and we get we only get for the baby, right?

And

[00:13:18] Jarriel Campbell: we do it. We don't get for the parents and the parents need the most. Right. So just throwing that out there and sometimes first time parents don't know to put that on their registry. So we have to be mindful about what they need because they don't know yet.

Cause they haven't experienced 

[00:13:32] Erika Bergen: I think that's what you said at the beginning, which I really like. Just you need a plan. 

 And just like you're thinking through everything else, 

You should be thinking about how are you going to support yourself? Because really what you don't want to happen is when you get to the end of your maternity leave or family leave, if you're, you know, fortunate enough to work somewhere where you have that, That leave time.

You get to the end of it and You do not feel ready and you're not going to feel ready regardless because it's very hard to leave 

 look I felt mixed because part of me was ready to do a little bit More adulting But the other half felt really torn and guilty but I think I would have felt a lot worse going back feeling like I really hadn't had a chance to recover or bond or Connect with myself again, right?

so that's an important way to kind of set yourself up for success going back is to spend the time in Postpartum being in postpartum to take care of yourself and your baby.

so I had a five month maternity leave, which was, which was nice. I've done this now twice.

There were a couple things I learned along the way. So I thought we could just talk through each of these together. I think I wrote down five things or something,

right? So. 

[00:14:47] Jarriel Campbell: Mm 

[00:14:47] Erika Bergen: So the first I had was around pumping, if you breastfeed and if you're still breastfeeding by that point, right, is pumping, we did have and Annie come to the house and take care of Aubrey.

So she was in one room. I was in another room working and managing that. Okay, when am I going to tear myself away and breastfeed? When am I going to choose to pump? That was a whole dance that took me several weeks to kind of figure out how to do that. 

[00:15:16] Jarriel Campbell: Hmm. 

[00:15:17] Erika Bergen: the things looking back, I wish I had done was to get a mini fridge in my office.

Which would have helped and and by my bedside which would have helped with the the pumping and storing experience a lot better 

[00:15:32] Jarriel Campbell: Okay. 

[00:15:33] Erika Bergen: One of the things I did the second time around which was really helpful was I got one of those Pumps that goes underneath your bra

[00:15:41] Jarriel Campbell: Love it. Mm 

[00:15:42] Erika Bergen: and I was pumping while while I was working

Actually, nobody knew.

[00:15:48] Jarriel Campbell: Mm hmm. 

[00:15:49] Erika Bergen: Right, and so I did carve out a time during the day. I ended up working out a schedule where I would breastfeed her once,

but I had to let go of the other times and just pump because it was too, it was just becoming too disruptive during my day. And so I started to treat it like I would be in the office, because if I were physically in my office, Then I would need to go and pump

and, and then you can schedule it.

You can manage it. You know how much time you're going to have when you're breastfeeding a child. It could take 10 minutes. It could take an hour. I mean, it just, it just,

depends on the baby and how they're and how focused. They are that day. 

[00:16:27] Jarriel Campbell: Yeah. 

[00:16:28] Erika Bergen: that's what I ended up doing. But pumping became one of those things where it is a lot easier to think and do it when you're working from home than when you're in the office.

So there is a real gift and being able to work remotely if you're still breastfeeding or pumping. Have you learned anything in, in working with moms and maybe your own experience?

[00:16:48] Jarriel Campbell: Yeah. So around breastfeeding, I will say, even if you do formula feed, having a mini fridge in the nursery could also be very helpful, especially if you have overnight support or doula support. Even if you don't, um, sometimes the bedroom or the nursery is on a different floor than a kitchen. So just minimizing the amount of time that you have to go back and forth and putting some things in a nursery to help you prepare, um, whether that be the pillows, the, refrigerator, the milk, the bottle warmer, whatever that is.

So just setting yourself up for success and to do less of the run around your house to get everything you need when baby needs to eat. Um, something I want to make people aware of is that there will be feelings and emotions around returning back to work that can impact your supply. So I have had clients who have like supply and they're absolutely fine Then as they get closer and closer to the end of maternity leave and eventually start work because of the build up and the anxiety And like just feeling like what's going to happen next?

Um, their milk supply does go down just want to just put that out there. Um, I also have clients who before they go on maternity leave fully Will pump and freeze milk so maybe that could also take some pressure off of you if you're feeling like Oh my gosh, like how is this going to work out?

Will they be able to be breastfed? I kind of want it to breastfeed for a certain amount of time So you don't have to sacrifice those goals. You can have that milk frozen It can be thawed out by whoever and given to the baby by your nanny Nanny, partner, whoever is 

[00:18:16] Erika Bergen: Mm hmm.

[00:18:17] Jarriel Campbell: Um, I also want people to know that if your milk supply does go down and breastfeeding is something that's very important to you, consider also if your area has a milk bank.

So I know in Ohio, we do have some milk banks where people donate breast milk. And if that's something that you're open to, that may be a resource in your area that you 

[00:18:37] Erika Bergen: Mm hmm. Yeah. Those are all great tips. Yeah. So with my first one, I went back. physically into the office after maternity leave and I lasted a month breastfeeding after that

because I could not keep up my supply dipped I think for all the reasons you said and I just couldn't keep up it was it was too difficult to juggle the pumping with the working and you know the the demand and pressure that was in the office

with my second one I was able to go a lot longer I was really proud I was shocked at how long I went Part of it was because 

 she took to it really well. Um, so I was able to go 15 months the second time, but a huge, but that was not easy. I mean, there were times where I tried to wean and she just was not having it. She was, she was so difficult with the formula. I'm like, just take the bottle with the formula.

Yeah.

[00:19:28] Jarriel Campbell: She was like, absolutely not. I 

[00:19:29] Erika Bergen: Yes. And so, and then I'd feel guilty, I'm like, well, I, she can't not eat. So you know, so I went, I mean, and I'm, I'm, I'm happy that I did cause it worked out for both of us, but it took a lot of support along the way. And I, you know, had a lactation consultant, fortunately that was covered through our insurance plan.

But there were moments in time where I felt like my supply was dipping quite a bit There was two or three times and I would go visit her and she gave such great advice and would create a plan Okay, this is what you can do and it was practical because I was honest like I this is my schedule This is what I got and she would work with it

to help me kind of get that supply back up 

[00:20:08] Jarriel Campbell: Excellent lactation support is so invaluable, and I would connect with that while you're still pregnant. Because I feel like it can be so hard to find that afterwards when you're in the thick of it. And sometimes, I'm gonna be honest, I feel like pregnancy brain continues. Like you can't even all the time think straight of like, what are all the options?

If you are a problem solver and constantly looking for solutions and used to having creative ideas. Sometimes if you have a baby, your mind is 

[00:20:33] Erika Bergen: Mm hmm.

[00:20:34] Jarriel Campbell: like, I don't even know what to do or where to start. So setting up some of those things while you're still expecting and then having that ready for postpartum, whether you need it or not can be invaluable. The other piece I wanted to say too, about going back to work. I would say for all of my full time working mamas go back part time and, or less. feel like it's a big transition and you need to be able to have the space to find a rhythm. So going back part time or I've even had clients who would go back like part time on some days and then have like maybe one full day a week and then like up that to two full days a week.

So just kind of tipping, like dipping your toe in the pool of going back into work from home. Full time because it can't I know for me, it can be overwhelming to kind of just be shoved back into a old routine, but you're not your old self and you don't have the same old responsibilities. So, finding that rhythm may take weeks.

It may take months. So, part time as much as you can, and then kind of build your way back up to your full time schedule. 

[00:21:33] Erika Bergen: That's exactly what I was going to, say too is, to propose some sort of ease in schedule.

so I had two different employers with the first baby and the second baby. The first baby, that was a policy, an ease in program.

[00:21:48] Jarriel Campbell: Oh, I 

[00:21:49] Erika Bergen: And it was,

[00:21:49] Jarriel Campbell: I wish

[00:21:50] Erika Bergen: it was, now the second, it wasn't policy, but, It wasn't not a policy, right?

It was no policy against it. So then I proposed it And my manager was really supportive and I was able to Gear my return to what I needed at the time And my learning and that was too is that you don't necessarily know What you need at the beginning before you go out, you don't know what your life is going to look like I for certain I didn't know if we would have had a house by then I didn't know if we would if I would have been able to find a

nanny or caretaker by then.

 So there was a lot of unknowns. So when I went out on maternity leave, I kind of set it up where Look, let's check in a month before i'm supposed to come back and just see where things are at and talk about What my return to work will look like?

 and then at that month point I had a much clearer sense and was able to propose a schedule that worked for me Which was as you suggested it was part time, you know, and I took a little bit of a pay cut before that But it was so worth it because I had six weeks to ramp up You figure out the breastfeeding schedule, the care schedule.

We had an, um, a nanny quit right before she was supposed to start in, in June. So my first two weeks, I didn't have the care I thought it was going to have. I was then hunting for someone again. So all these variables can happen. You can't over support yourself. So creating buffers in space so that you have the flexibility that you really need when it comes down to it.

Yeah.

[00:23:17] Jarriel Campbell: percent. Yeah.

Such a good tip. Such a good 

[00:23:20] Erika Bergen: So I wrote down naps

and

[00:23:23] Jarriel Campbell: For the

[00:23:23] Erika Bergen: Yeah. Right. For the adult. one of the blessings when you work remotely is that you can, you could do this and you can do it without feeling guilty, right? You've been up all night, probably on most nights.

Then you're working at a hundred percent a short nap is a great way to just reset and there's a thing have you heard of coffee naps?

So I hadn't either, but I didn't realize I had been doing it. So, and then I learned it was a thing. So basically what I was doing is at the middle of the day, I would have a cup of coffee and I'd still feel really tired. And so I'd go lay down and I'm like, man, I can nap after drinking a coffee.

This is crazy. This is like beyond exhaustion. Right.

And then I would nap and I had learned you only take 20 minute naps. If you nap any longer than that. it starts to become harder to wake up, right? And i'd wake up for my 20 minutes and I feel great and then someone said to me. Oh, that's a coffee nap That's actually a thing.

So if you look it up on the internet,

 There are sleep specialists who recommend this It takes about 20 to 30 minutes for caffeine to kick in so you quickly consume a cup of coffee then you lay down immediately after for 20 minutes and then when you wake up you have the You The hit of the coffee and the hit of the nap.

[00:24:42] Jarriel Campbell: and the nap wow, so you have some natural things and 

[00:24:46] Erika Bergen: Right.

[00:24:46] Jarriel Campbell: going together. I love that I've never heard of a coffee nap, but I do highly highly highly encourage naps I my daughter is seven and I still take naps I was so disappointed when she stopped napping because it literally was like my favorite part of the day when she was like younger, like taking a nap 

[00:25:02] Erika Bergen: Yes, and I was one of those people who didn't think I could take naps. And then someone told me, you, you've got to train yourself to take a nap.

And so I did. It took me, a couple days to get into the swing of things, but then my bodyjust got with the program, you know, it knew, okay, it's one o'clock, it's time to lay down and you're going to be so much more productive in the second half of your day.

Okay. Because you've reset your body a little. Yeah.

[00:25:27] Jarriel Campbell: what do you think helped you with like training yourself to take a nap? Did you put on like white noise or meditation music or did you just rest your eyes? 

[00:25:35] Erika Bergen: Honestly, I, I was so tired, which most moms can relate to that, that your body when you give yourself permission to sleep, it will sleep.

It's tired. Right? And then

[00:25:48] Jarriel Campbell: so that's the key 

[00:25:49] Erika Bergen: yeah, you just, it was probably that just giving myself the permission to do it. And then also just listening to my body because we all have those moments during the day where it just feels hard to do the next thing because you're so tired.

and

[00:26:02] Jarriel Campbell: Yeah

[00:26:02] Erika Bergen: that time, I would try to wake myself up.

Let me have coffee. Let me eat something. Let me go get some fresh air. And instead of trying to keep myself up, I just listened to my body and said, okay, now it's time to rest.

[00:26:15] Jarriel Campbell: Yeah, I love 

[00:26:17] Erika Bergen: So, the other thing I wanted to ask you about is tearing yourself away from your baby.

I, I did not have a hard time with this with Aubrey, but I struggled with my first because there's this desire, right?

There's this expectation you're supposed to be able to do everything. At least I felt that pressure. So I had a hard time, even when support would come. With my first my mom came so my mom came to visit 

[00:26:44] Jarriel Campbell: Oh 

[00:26:45] Erika Bergen: and help and she's like I'll take the baby And at this time we were in a one bedroom apartment So she was in the living room and we moved the bassinet out there And she's like you're gonna be able to sleep then.

I heard Renee crying 

[00:26:58] Jarriel Campbell: okay. 

[00:27:00] Erika Bergen: she was helping she was there she was gonna do What she needed to do to support and and help Renee, but I had a hard time letting that happen And so I kept coming out and checking and coming out and checking My mom got so frustrated with me She said if you're gonna keep checking you might as well just take her back in the room because you're not sleeping And I said, okay, and I took her back I mean, it's like such a fail and I look back on that moment And And think, wow, I really, and I was only about two weeks postpartum at that point.

I really did not get it right. I wasn't able to see that I needed support. I wasn't able to receive the support. I was hard to help. So, um, and then it happens again When you go back to work, your partner is then off, right?

So you exchange the leaves or you have, somebody come in and help with the baby. So then, right? So you're back at work, you're in a meeting and the baby's crying upstairs and then it becomes hard to concentrate. And again, you're still feeling that tension of needing to pull yourself away

and not let the cries.

Kind of get to you, which feels counterintuitive to that motherly instinct. 

what support could you offer to women who struggle with receiving support, tearing themselves away, letting somebody else come in and take over for a little bit of time?

[00:28:21] Jarriel Campbell: Yeah, I think one thing that could be helpful for the person that is giving the support is to actually take the baby with you somewhere. like, hey, 

[00:28:31] Erika Bergen: So good.

[00:28:32] Jarriel Campbell: in the living room while you're in the other room, I'm gonna take the baby for a walk and we're gonna walk around, like I'll have my cell phone on me, call me, text me if you need anything, 

[00:28:40] Erika Bergen: Right,

[00:28:41] Jarriel Campbell: gotten some rest and you're already sleeping. So I do think that sometimes it can be difficult for parents to let go. I think that it's natural. You guys have blinded, you have that instinct, and you have that guilt of being torn between two worlds.

And so So I totally understand that. And sometimes having the baby removed from the environment where you can't do anything besides relax is helpful. And then of course, like if you're comfortable with the overnight thing, some of my clients have done that where their oldest child will spend the night with grandma or grandpa, and they'll be all by theirself with the grandparents for a full day and night, and then they'll bring the oldest child back.

So you got to spend time with the baby by yourself. if you do feel comfortable with the baby staying overnight with the parent and you have that option, then you can. I know not everybody does feel comfortable, so maybe it is just a trip to the store and you want your baby right back. That's fine, too. But, just giving yourself, like, the permission to allow other people to love on the baby and to give yourself the space and time you need to really check in with yourself. I think, too, It's okay to get up and check on the baby and just remind yourself that, okay, the baby's here. This person is here who I trust.

Everything is good. Offer some support. Hey, do you need me to grab X, Y, Z? And if the person says no, then walk back into the room that you were in and try to refocus and center yourself and continue, right? Remind yourself, hey, is here who I very much so trust. They're right in the other room.

If they need me, they will call me right now. It's okay for me to let go of that focus. They're capable and for me to focus

[00:30:11] Erika Bergen: mm hmm. 

[00:30:12] Jarriel Campbell: or for

me to focus on the meeting, but sometimes getting up and just doing a visual check and saying something, maybe the person did forget where the diapers or where the wipes were, where you stored the extra sheets. And there was a blowout and they need the sheets and they can't find them, right? So maybe you can provide that assistance and then just take yourself back to what you were doing, right? So I think that it's going to take some time for sure and to be gentle with yourself. But for the people that support, I think sometimes taking the baby completely out 

[00:30:38] Erika Bergen: Yeah, 

[00:30:38] Jarriel Campbell: the house or

out of the environment is definitely 

[00:30:42] Erika Bergen: such an obvious answer, right? And it's and it's I mean, I still struggle with that 

[00:30:46] Jarriel Campbell: maybe 

[00:30:47] Erika Bergen: but you know, it's a just leave the house.

Just leave right even

[00:30:52] Jarriel Campbell: Or as a parent, 

[00:30:53] Erika Bergen: right?

as a parent, right? If you're if you're

[00:30:55] Jarriel Campbell: or the Starbucks

[00:30:56] Erika Bergen: I mean now, I mean, I'm even I'm thinking yeah, that's such I should I should do that right now Right. I I Should leave more and even though I work remotely it doesn't mean that I have to work from home all of the time particularly I

[00:31:09] Jarriel Campbell: space or,

[00:31:10] Erika Bergen: Exactly. Exactly. To get, to get out.

Yeah. Switch up the routine.

[00:31:15] Jarriel Campbell: think, too, will, like, eliminate it. Because maybe, , emotionally in your mind, it is very hard. To ignore something that's going on in the other room or delegate something that's going on in the other room, just as mothers, because we're used to multitasking to managing to solving problems.

And so, if there's a problem in the other room, which it must be, because the baby's crying, I'm in problem solving mode now for my job and for my family. So, sometimes you do just have to remove yourself from the environment to kind of take that hat off. If you can't take it off while you're in the environment.

And that's okay. A lot of us 

[00:31:47] Erika Bergen: Yeah. And that actually brings me to the, the last thing I had here, which was dealing with social isolation.

[00:31:54] Jarriel Campbell: Mm. Mm 

[00:31:55] Erika Bergen: when you work remote, I struggled with this with my second, with my first, when I went back to work, I went back into an office and I sort of rejoined a little bit of normalcy in terms of my routine, which was really healthy for me.

The second time I, you know, I felt even more isolated because now I'm rejoining this remote world, but now I have this whole other life that people don't even have a, they can't see me. They don't know, they can't see physically how I've changed. It can be a very isolating experience.

And so, I also like that idea of getting out of the house because it gives you a chance to build your own routine for yourself outside of your baby. You're not just going into the next room, you're actually getting ready, you're going out, you're driving somewhere, and maybe it's somewhere with other people, so you're getting a chance to interact and socialize.

 in terms of socialization and, and building community, what have you seen moms do?

[00:32:47] Jarriel Campbell: I think, uh, post pandemic, it's been really great to have the virtual and in person options for getting out and getting community. So, I know, like, here in Cleveland, we do have, like, virtual postpartum support groups that you can go to. There's also in person things. So a lot of now the pediatricians offices and doctors offices while you're pregnant will have something called centering where you're getting together with other people who are expecting and you guys are having dialogue and conversation with your providers or whoever is leading the centering group at the time.

So you're building community there. There's also the opportunity to do things like childbirth education classes or newborn care classes. So you and maybe your partner can go to those classes and of course everybody there is having a baby soon. So that's another way to connect with people. Um, and then as you are on the postpartum side, i've seen things like newborn massage class series. So you can take your baby. You can learn some new things to help them relax and you can bond with other parents who are doing the same thing. So I would check things like Eventbrite or Facebook events, um, and start to look for new parenting, like workshops and classes, mommy and me sort of things where you can sort of get out the house and connect with people in person or virtual, whatever you have the 

[00:34:03] Erika Bergen: Mm hmm. Yeah. Playgrounds became a little bit of a sanctuary for me because especially in the middle of the day, usually the people there also have young kids cause who else is going to the playground in the middle of the day.

[00:34:16] Jarriel Campbell: right. And people work remote cause everybody else is 

[00:34:19] Erika Bergen: Right. Yeah. And so you can, you can build some friendships there and then even just make some, make Some scheduled time like when are you coming back you just have Something to look forward to somebody to connect with

but it is really a challenge. It is really a challenge I had a friend of mine who was dealing with this too She lived in New York City and she formed her own Facebook mommy group So New York City's very neighborhood driven I mean even by down to like the blocks and a lot of neighborhoods are like that but she lived in a certain community where She lived in New York City and she formed her own Facebook mommy group for her There weren't a whole lot of mommy groups.

 so she formed a Facebook community for people within her, 

Five ten block radius and she discovered some new moms that way and was able to meet up with them during her postpartum Mmm

[00:35:05] Jarriel Campbell: so cool. the library. I feel like the library is such an underutilized resource, especially this day and age, but the library has, , So many classes. They have so many great play areas for Children. I was actually just at a library play area with my daughter last night. She was meeting new friends. They also even had an hour where they gave away food from the Greater Cleveland Food Bank from 6 30 to 7 30.

So people who needed dinner and wanted something to eat, they had that available. They had tutors available for kids that are in school. So there's so many dope programs for absolute free at the library that people should look into and 

[00:35:38] Erika Bergen: Yeah, you're so right, we go to, we're avid library goers too, both of our kids go quite a bit. Um, so yeah, thanks for mentioning that, 

I mean, community pools are great, particularly in the summer during the day. That's, that's where you can find other people with young kids. So um, so, so great advice there. And actually I had one more, which was around physical health, 

 I was postpartum like six months and I started to realize Oh, well, I'm in chronic pain. something happened during the birth where and I think even during the pregnancy whereas I was, you know, Developing my belly and then just everything got out of alignment

and I discovered a chiropractor 

I went in for one session I ended up doing a block of sessions But after my first session was able to walk without pain and that's how bad it was where I walked out I didn't even realize it, but I walked out and I could walk and I thought to myself Oh, wow, this doesn't I don't feel that pull in my hip You

by just walking.

And it had happened so slowly over such a long period of time that I hadn't realized it. 

 I was always really scared of, A chiropractor But for me. It was having that discussion with myself of I don't feel like myself and yes I am 40 at this point. So my body is changing, but I should be able to walk up the stairs without pain.

I deserve to live pain free and I need to prioritize this and go out and seek the care that I need, which actually took a lot of intentional thought 

[00:37:09] Jarriel Campbell: Yeah, I actually encourage all of my birth clients to go see a 

[00:37:14] Erika Bergen: Oh, 

[00:37:14] Jarriel Campbell: yeah, so as a birth doula, I feel like having everything in alignment can, um, a lot of times make labor and delivery go faster and people don't realize that. But sometimes if a baby is in a position that's not optimal, it can cause you to have longer periods of labor.

So I encourage all of my birth clients to seek support with the chiropractor and also, um, something else that people don't think about a pelvic floor therapist, because ultimately, if you have had a baby before, your pelvic floor therapist can support you around strengthening for the next birth that you're about to go into.

And if you never had a baby before. You can start talking to your public floor therapist about how to push what position to push in and making a plan for that and then following up with them after peeing when you sneeze and cough is not normal after you had a baby. That means that there's something going on with your pelvic floor and a pelvic floor therapist can support you with that. Having pain during sex after you have a baby is not normal. That means that you need to go to a pelvic floor therapist so to help you with that. Because I know when I talked to my mom about it, she was like, Oh yeah, like I had three babies, I go to the bathroom every 15 minutes, it's normal.

I'm like, Okay, like and I'm thinking that well, that's what happens when you have three babies But ultimately there is a specialist for that and it is a pelvic floor therapist No matter what age you are I highly encourage you to seek out that support and to see a pelvic floor therapist and yes a chiropractor I feel like yoga and pilates is a good Practice if you feel into it, you can also still get massages I mean they do have prenatal massage and then postpartum massage So people who specifically specialize in helping women who have just gone into labor or just come out of labor But through massage if you feel more comfortable with that because you're right.

Some people do have things about chiropractors I've been to a chiropractor for years. I absolutely love love love my chiropractor. I breathe better sleep better feel better Um Once I see my chiropractor and I was going multiple times a week and then so once a week to every other week. So for sure, for sure, for sure.

Sometimes being holistic and preventative can help us avoid some things like in the future that we just ignore and push through that cause other issues that become something greater that may require surgery or a deeper dive from a specialist where we could have just done some simple things at the beginning.

So definitely encourage people to take assessment and get the support that 

[00:39:34] Erika Bergen: Yeah, that's, I think that's the takeaway from today, right? So as a working mama with a new one at home, when you're returning to work, Think about how you're going to take care of yourself before you enter that leave. Think about the support that you need, you know, think about what you need as you return to work.

What support can your employer give you? What can you do? And. And ask for in terms of flexibility in your schedule and then continue to check in with yourself, right? So whether that's physically, whether that's mentally, we didn't even go there with the mental stuff, but there's, you know, there's so much that, you know, to unpack there as well.

And then. Whatever you want to give to your baby, whether that's, that's breastfeeding, whether that's time, like whatever that is that you want to give more of, how can you support yourself to do that? So, 

[00:40:20] Jarriel Campbell: Yeah. 

[00:40:20] Erika Bergen: thank you so much, Gerrielle, for having this conversation. I think we could probably talk for another, another hour.

So there's just, when it comes to postpartum, there's just so many layers to it. And so, yeah.

[00:40:33] Jarriel Campbell: I'll have to come back and we'll, um, we'll peel 

[00:40:35] Erika Bergen: Yeah, you'll have to come back. In the meantime, how can people get in touch with you?

[00:40:40] Jarriel Campbell: Yeah, so I have my website, callyourdoula. com. Um, doula is spelled d o u l a, so callyourdoula. com. Even if you aren't in Ohio or in the Cleveland area, definitely reach out. I do have a Global doula network and also providing virtual support. So we'd love to help you in any way that I can, if you need some support and thank you so much for having me.

[00:41:03] Erika Bergen: If you got something out of this episode, and I really hope that you did, please share it with someone else that you know that could benefit from it, whether they are a mama or the partner or friend of a mama.

And of course, please remember to subscribe at work at remote. com. Thank you.