E10: Working Remote and Thriving with Multiple Sclerosis

E10 Community Spotlight: Real Stories of Working Remotely with Danielle Cornejo Calhoun

Podcast: Work it, Remote

Host: Erika Bergen

All content in this podcast belongs to Erika Bergen. 

Published: January 30, 2025

[00:00:00] Erika Bergen Today's episode is with Danielle Cornejo Calhoun. She's a real remote worker living outside of the Seattle, Washington area. And this is part of a series I want to start in this podcast, where we spotlight members of our community, women who are working remote. Why they do so and what that experience is like for them.

So much of us experience our remote work in isolation. And I believe there is power in shared experience and storytelling. Now Danielle is going to share her story, but I'll preview it by saying that she started working remote because she has a disability. That was her why. And it's really empowering to hear her tell her story.

and share the courage it took and the fear she had when asking for what she needed, an accommodation of working remotely. This interview was recorded in December of 2024. Six [00:01:00] short, short interviews. Yet very long weeks ago. It is now January 2025 and in listening back to this episode It felt like I had pulled it out of a time capsule that now feels so far away from where we are today Because the temperature has changed we have seen RTO mandates in vicious force.

We have seen the rollback of so many DEI programs and even those words, diversity, equity, inclusion, remote, hybrid, flexible work. They feel toxic. In future episodes, I want to unpack this a little bit more, what we're seeing happening in the world right now.

I am taking it all in. I am trying to process it and make sense of it just like many of you, I'm sure. But I thought this was a good moment to start this spotlight and release this episode because we need to remind ourselves [00:02:00] of why this work and this way of working matters. We need something to ground our stories in there's power in truth, and we need to see our own humanity 

when news drops of an organization requiring or the federal government requiring people to come in five days a week, some people can make that work, but there are those who can't. And I think a lot about the people who now have to make some really tough choices as to how they're going to provide for their families or the sacrifices that they now need to make in order to get into the office.

Five days a week. There are real stories behind that. There's a lot of intersectionality between diversity, equity, inclusion, and flexible work because having flexible work creates economic opportunity and access to opportunity that most benefits people who [00:03:00] fall into into the categories of marginalized, underrepresented, and those protected classes.

Danielle is a passionate advocate for DEI. So we talk specifically about these things in the episode as well. I want this to be a community that is optimistic and hopeful and uplifting. But I also want to honor the very, real moment that we're in. I hope you feel seen in her words and If you're not experiencing this in the way that others are, I hope this episode helps you build your own empathy for those who are having a difficult time right now.

 take care, take very good care of yourselves and I'd love to hear from you. Please reach out, share your story with me. , if there's something you'd like to hear me talk about or somebody else in this platform, let me know. You can go to work at remote. com and hit the microphone button to send me a voice message. You can also drop me an [00:04:00] email styled message to the website as well. .

[00:04:02] Erika Bergen Danielle, welcome to Work It Remote. Hi, I'm really excited. This is the first time I'm doing this, which is a community spotlight episode. And the reason why I'm doing this is because in this remote world, we are often isolated,

[00:04:39] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: hmm.

[00:04:39] Erika Bergen And we don't always understand how non unique our experience is. And so I think 

showing one another what our experience looks like, how we started working remote, why we do it and how we've navigated it so that it works for us is really [00:05:00] inspiring, I hope, but also just helps show people that like you're not alone and there's others who are in this boat with you. And sometimes just the sharing of information can be so powerful for people.

So I'm really excited that you are. the first person that we're going to have this type of conversation with and that you're inviting me into your and all of us into your remote life. So thank you.

[00:05:23] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: I'm excited to do it. Thank you for having me.

[00:05:27] Erika Bergen so you've been working remote for a long time pre pandemic

[00:05:32] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: it's so bizarre to realize that that's true.

[00:05:35] Erika Bergen Yeah.

[00:05:37] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: about six months before the pandemic in what I describe as bizarrely wonderful timing. I went remote originally due to a chronic illness. I have multiple sclerosis. And at the time I just very suddenly. It went from being a hidden disability to a very visible disability.

I has [00:06:00] a really hard time walking very far. Um, he's using two walking sticks, so two canes, basically, to get around. just suddenly, commuting all the way into the city and I rode the ferry every day and I'd walk from the ferry building and it was a lot of fun for a lot of years but then suddenly when you can't walk that easily it's very hard and I would be so exhausted by the time I actually got to the office.

It took everything in me just to get to the office. alone then have a full workday and then commute home again. And so at the time I requested a reasonable accommodation and said, we make this work? I'd really like to work remotely. I don't know how long this will last. If I will come back, I don't know what this looks like with my body, but know, can we, can we find a way to make this work?

And luckily my company said, yes, I don't know if I should say, luckily it's, you know, they, they made the reasonable accommodation as companies say. I think should.

[00:06:55] Erika Bergen Required by law, yes.

[00:06:57] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: I still, I still feel like [00:07:00] I count myself lucky, maybe lucky that the law exists, lucky that we have the ADA. Um, but all to say that, yeah, I, that was in 2019 and then the pandemic hit and in that really weird way, you know, I would never ever wish for a pandemic, but the one silver lining for me is that companies really saw that remote workers really do the work.

I was really afraid that my days were numbered or maybe I wouldn't be put on cool projects anymore because everyone else was in person vibing with each other and here I am at home which was not really the thing that people did in 2019 and

[00:07:33] Erika Bergen Mm hmm.

[00:07:34] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: and so all to say that yeah now it's wild to think that we're you know just starting 2025 and therefore I guess I've been a remote worker for a long time 

[00:07:44] Erika Bergen when you asked to go remote, did you understand that there was a protection in place that you had this right to work remote? because it's a brave step to have that conversation with an employer, right? 

, whatever you're comfortable sharing, but what was that [00:08:00] like for you and how did you go about having that conversation?

[00:08:02] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: I mean, the truth is, it was. terrifying. And I, I needed to have the conversation sooner than I did. I really sort of hit my last straw before I thought, I have to ask, I have to find a way to ask. And I mean, I was Googling, you know, like wild trying to figure out what is a reasonable accommodation.

Is this reasonable? You know, Googling the phrase, like is working remote a reasonable accommodation? And I was like, You know, trying to find sort of proof to myself that it was okay to ask. And, and I think what always tripped me up, and what probably trips a lot of people up is, is that the language does say that, you know, it has to be reasonable for the company to function with whatever you're requesting. So, for example, if my job was literally lift huge heavy boxes, then I'd have to find a whole new function if I said, well, I can't lift heavy boxes anymore. And. It'd be kind of a different conversation. I thought that because my job, you know, I work in public [00:09:00] relations. And so for me, it seemed totally reasonable that I could theoretically do this remotely. And I was just so afraid that they might find some reason that they found logically Um, you know, it wouldn't work to do remotely, even though I knew it would. And I knew that even some people did work remote already, but I just was so afraid that somehow it wasn't going to be right for me. And so, yeah, I mean, I remember my heart, my heart was racing.

My hands were sweating as I was sitting, having the conversation with HR and I was kind of doing everything I could to make them comfortable, you know, huge smiles, just to

[00:09:37] Erika Bergen Yeah.

[00:09:37] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: everything's really okay. Just let me be remote. you know, they were great about it. They were like, yeah. this form and you know, you just need a doctor to sign off, but I'm sure that's not a problem and let us know if there's anything we can do to support you.

And, you know, they were totally reasonable and kind and helpful and all the things you hope they would be. But yeah, it's terrifying. And I think too, what's really interesting and hard, and I think this is [00:10:00] starting to change slowly, is that hard to find other people with that story. No one's out there talking about it publicly or even with your colleagues of like, Hey, you know, I had this accommodation and how about you?

You know, like you, it's hard to talk about. Um, but one thing that I've tried to do, you know, luckily through the company that I work for, I was tapped to be the founding chair of a business resource group, centering people with disabilities and chronic illnesses. my mission in my heart was. At the very least, I want to figure out a way to create a group where we can all talk about this kind of stuff. And literally people could call me and say, Hey, I haven't disclosed to anyone, but here's what's going on. And here's the accommodation I think I need. How do I say this to HR? And like that has happened over and over and over and over again. And we do way more programming than that and do all kinds of cool stuff.

But like still in my heart, the goal is like Yeah. this is a thing. There's more than one. There's more than two. [00:11:00]There's more than 20. You know, there's a lot of people who need these things and we can talk

But at least if you know you can call someone who went through it, that's something.

I didn't know who to call.

[00:11:11] Erika Bergen Yeah. And then I think even just you sharing your story now, right, there's somebody listening at

[00:11:17] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: I

[00:11:17] Erika Bergen point will listen to this, and get that courage of, okay, I can ask for this 

 so when you started working remote in 2019 and the pandemic still hadn't hit yet, I'm sure that there was, a little bit of a shock to the system. So, um, so it's a.

[00:11:37] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: know, that I was so used to being in person with.

[00:11:39] Erika Bergen I mean clearly a benefit was that you got to take better care of yourself and there could not be , anything more important than taking care of your health and yourself.

So imagine that was a huge benefit. But what else did you experience as a person? Maybe a benefit of moving remote and then what did you find to be some of the maybe the top two or three benefits [00:12:00] and maybe the two or three things that you found to be struggles Mm

[00:12:05] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: because you don't, you don't know what you don't know until you're in it. And so for me, I mean, absolutely. Just like you're saying, taking care of myself, which that's like a whole other that took me years to figure out how to really actually take care of myself.

The first thing was simply not using all my energy to get to the office. I could use my energy to get the work done. And that's what was really important to me. And it was sort of all the energy I had at that time just just to get the work done. then I was. exhausted for the rest of the night, but I felt like, okay, I can still do this job. I love this job. I don't want to do anything else and change careers. Like this is what I want to focus on. And so at the time it was just simply my energy to do the work. And then at the time, because, because it was pre pandemic and then again, this would be true now, I had more flexibility to pick.

when I did want to go in person. And so I could still come [00:13:00] for the staff meetings. I could still travel to go on site with clients. so I could really almost, I felt like I was like saving up my energy for those moments that I could

[00:13:09] Erika Bergen hmm,

[00:13:10] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: the most impact and most meaningful conversations rather than coming to the office just to sit on my computer all day anyway.

And I was like, well, I've got my computer at home, you know, I don't need to do this. So

[00:13:21] Erika Bergen right.

[00:13:21] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: was really kind of understanding how to. I was, I was starting to learn how to not only manage my time, but manage my energy. And that was a big in concentration than I had before. And then the second benefit was just more time for myself, which, like I said, I had to really figure out what that meant in terms of caring for myself, but you know, I used to commute an hour and a half each way. And at the time,

[00:13:46] Erika Bergen Oh

[00:13:46] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: was really exciting. Like I, I remember so vividly that first time riding the ferry into the city and I was like, Oh my gosh, like I got this job at this big agency.

I've always dreamt of working for, and I'm going to be in the heart of the city and life is so great. And then after, you [00:14:00] know, many, many years of that, it's like, okay, but what could I do with three hours a day? That's not. Like on a ferry and walking.

[00:14:07] Erika Bergen Right

[00:14:08] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: being home and I, you know, I took up. new hobbies, and I just spent time with my husband and, you know, just anything you can think of.

I watched a movie one day and then I felt really guilty that I was like, Oh my gosh, I watched a movie like on a weekday.

[00:14:22] Erika Bergen on a Wednesday what?

[00:14:23] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: exactly. I had to get through that guilt, which seems so silly in a way, but you know, you have this mindset that it's all about the commute and the work and you should be busy from waking till sleep, just work, work, work. And trying to untangle that mindset took a long time. But it was an interesting and wonderful benefit once I started to realize that it's okay not to commute for three hours a day. I don't have to feel guilty about that. Um,

[00:14:51] Erika Bergen Yeah, and the city you're referring to is San Francisco,

[00:14:53] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: I'm referring to is San Francisco. And I should say for everyone listening that I'm from Kansas city. So for my, you [00:15:00] know, little Kansas heart to be on a boat on the water, when I grew up in a landlocked state, you know, it was just so exciting and wonderful to, to commute that way and to be in San Francisco and everything was so. Big and different

[00:15:14] Erika Bergen Yes, isn't everything so novel when we're in our our 20s, right? It's like It's like yeah, I get to commute an hour and a half. I'm This is such a cool job right that alone like I'm so important

[00:15:26] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: exactly,

[00:15:27] Erika Bergen And I think what you said resonates, right? the One of the points you made about one of the benefits for me is the time management piece, right?

Because when you're Your home and that's actually one of the things I think folks struggle with a lot That is the time management piece. That is the harder part of working remote.

[00:15:46] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: yes,

[00:15:46] Erika Bergen it's interesting that you claim that as a benefit, that you were able to manage your time more efficiently working remote.

[00:15:54] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: mm

[00:15:55] Erika Bergen know, I, what I, what I have, what I have experienced is, okay, now [00:16:00] I'm doing the home thing and the work thing in the same space. And then I can find myself. spending even more time or, you know, getting kind of stuck into rabbit holes because I don't have people around me, right? To kind of lift me out of it here and there.

, what has been one of your hacks, right? We're always looking for like the cliff notes,

[00:16:22] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: yes.

[00:16:22] Erika Bergen what have you, what has kept you honest with time? How has, how have you worked that into a benefit?

[00:16:27] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: Well, that's such an interesting question, for me, and it's changed too, I should say that, that about 2019 to now, back then I was, Living in an apartment with my husband, me, having those extra hours, I, I almost didn't know what to do with myself because I was so used to just working, working, working. And so I would really intentionally try to make myself step away find something else to do. And, again, there was a lot sort of to untangle there, but then fast forward to now. And. You know, now [00:17:00] we're living in a house, which means I can actually dedicate a room to be my office, which not everyone has the extra space, but if you do, or if you can even create some kind of a that feels like that's your office for that chunk of the day, that's really helped me feel like I've got a little bit of a separation, but now I've got two young kids.

I've got a three and a half year old and a 10 month old. And so to your point, finding that kind of differentiation, it's, it's I feel like it's, it's good and hard at the same time.

[00:17:31] Erika Bergen Mm hmm.

[00:17:32] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: I really, I do, I come to my office, and I close the door, and I make it, you know, very office y, if that makes sense.

Like, there's no kids toys in here, the kids aren't allowed in here, and so I can just really focus, and my calendar is blocked out with all the specific projects I want to work on. But then the benefit is I do, I block out a half an hour for lunch every day and I go upstairs and have lunch with the kids as often as possible because I feel like I'm home. [00:18:00] is

[00:18:00] Erika Bergen Mm hmm.

[00:18:01] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: Like, growing up, my dad was a stay at home dad, so we saw him all the time, but we didn't see my mom until she got off work every day. And so, if I can have a culture in my house where my kids eating lunch with me every day, and it's not affecting the work, it took, I did feel very guilty when I started doing this.

It's like, oh, geez, like, am I allowed to take a half hour off to go eat lunch? Yes.

[00:18:21] Erika Bergen Yes.

[00:18:22] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: I did that more in the office. Like, we would go out together with colleagues and go eat lunch. know, it's like we

[00:18:28] Erika Bergen Right.

[00:18:28] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: things, I think, when we're home that, like, we used to walk to a coffee shop together and just brainstorm on a project. And now I feel so guilty if I drive to a coffee shop at like 2 p. m. and it's like, well, no, I think this is normal. And I used to do it a lot more. And so to your point, that balance can be difficult. And so I think, I don't know if I have a perfect hack, but I think having a little bit of a space that's yours.

It's really, really helps me. And then giving yourself that permission to step away and have lunch with the kids, go grab [00:19:00] a coffee someone outside of our industry half an hour, for an hour, once in a while, whatever. Like we used to do those things when we worked in person

[00:19:09] Erika Bergen Right.

[00:19:10] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: and now we feel really guilty if we leave our desk ever.

[00:19:13] Erika Bergen Yeah. I know. I mean, that's the time man. That's like spot on. What I have found is that I'll just work right through lunch, right? And I'll be on my two o'clock call and I'm like, Oh crap, I forgot to eat lunch. But that would have never happened in the office or at least 

Not on accident, right? I would have intentionally done it, not like forgotten to do it, because people around me would have been getting up and saying, Hey, Erika, have you want to grab some lunch? So you're, you're exactly, you're exactly right. We have to sort of make that time sacred for ourselves.

And I love that you're able to also spend, not just take it for yourself, but also spend it. with your kids. so what have you found to be one of the struggles here? And I know we're bouncing around because 2019 was different in a lot of ways from 2024 because 2019 you [00:20:00] were, without kids and that was pre pandemic.

[00:20:03] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: hmm.

[00:20:04] Erika Bergen Now we're post pandemic, but let's go back to 2019

[00:20:08] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: Sure.

[00:20:09] Erika Bergen um, that is, the entry into remote work for the first time,

[00:20:15] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: hmm.

[00:20:16] Erika Bergen right, is where that sort of that shock happens as to, okay, this is a new way of working.

[00:20:21] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: hmm.

[00:20:21] Erika Bergen So what was one of the things that you maybe didn't know that you wish you did?

[00:20:26] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: Oh,

[00:20:27] Erika Bergen that when you first entered into it, you were like, oh, okay, gotta adjust for this thing.

Was there something like that for you?

[00:20:35] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: oh, that's such a good question. I mean One is just the comforts that an office can provide. I started just working at my kitchen table, and I learned very quickly that that chair was not comfortable for more than however long it usually takes me to eat a meal.

[00:20:53] Erika Bergen Right.

[00:20:54] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: And so, things like that, um, figuring out a good way to sit, [00:21:00]um, a good comfortable place to sit. at the time, this is sort of hardly relevant anymore, but at the time, it was just really hard to follow conversations because everyone else would be in a conference room on a speakerphone me dialing to follow who was saying what and to feel comfortable with me jumping in as the little voice on the speaker trying to share an idea was hugely different and I didn't see that coming.

And I'd say that's one huge benefit of we're all on, you know, zoom or teams or Google now and Even the people in the office are all usually on a screen, either together or their individual screens, but the way that we've collaborated now is so different than 2019, where I felt, I just felt like an outsider. And I wonder if that might be similar, now, when people first go remote, you might feel a little bit like an outsider because you don't have that same sort of crew that you used to always hang out with, or always have meetings with, or just grabbing someone along the way to a [00:22:00] meeting, like, hey, we're brainstorming, do you want to come? Like, that doesn't happen in the same way, and you have to be intentional and think a little bit differently to either be included or intentionally include others into what you're doing.

[00:22:12] Erika Bergen I found that to be true even post pandemic I think most people are in either they're fully remote and, and most of the people they work with are also remote or they're.

more in a hybrid, but there are still many of us out there where we're remote, but our team is hybrid.

[00:22:31] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: mm hmm, yes,

[00:22:32] Erika Bergen And so it is still of what you're saying is still true in that scenario because most people are in the office a couple days a week together, but you are not.

[00:22:39] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: right,

[00:22:40] Erika Bergen And so you are a little bit of an outsider, and don't have to be, you just have to be really intentional and proactive in the way that you build connections.

with the team and what you said, be strategic when you do come into the office, you know what you're doing there and how you're maximizing that time. So, [00:23:00] um, so when you were in that, in that world, what, what did you find helpful to try to stay present with your team?

[00:23:11] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: at the time I tried, I mean, one was that I did try to go in as often as I felt like, know, my body would let me, you know, I already shared that it was a sort of a medical reason that I wasn't coming into the office as much. And so at least For me at that time coming in person, even if it was every other week, you know, something where I could be in person and just sort of like remind people that I really do exist. Um, but then, you know, I think even now I'm just fully remote. And so I try really hard just little things like sending people, you know, we use teams. And so I'll try to send a little teams message with, you know, Hey, I, you know, I saw this article or I saw this. You know, journalists just publish this thing and does anyone know what the next story is going to be about or whatever the thing [00:24:00] is just to have my name pop up in a way

[00:24:03] Erika Bergen hmm.

[00:24:03] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: was imagining that it's like my face popping up next to your desk is

[00:24:09] Erika Bergen Yeah.

[00:24:09] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: trying to find reasons outside of the very formal weekly status check in or the big project that I'm going to email over. I'll try. It's not as often as if we were in person, but I'll try to sort of find a reason. To connect with people, and I feel like that might sound so obvious, but I also feel like just having,

[00:24:29] Erika Bergen Yeah.

[00:24:30] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: these little moments, and it works for me too, where I'll see people pop up, even like in a kind of like a group chat, sharing something seemingly unrelated to anything, but then it sparks an idea that we end up kind of running with on a project in the future, and so it's those little moments of of unexpected creativity that are harder, I think, to produce remotely, but, but we can kind of find those ways to create almost the new version of [00:25:00] what that looks like. it is hard. And it's just different. I mean, that's just the truth. I think it's just different rather than trying to almost recreate the ecosystem I used to have. really, for myself, at least see it as like very different. Worlds that I inhabit, in a way that can almost be seen as exciting.

It's like, oh, that job I used to have and that job I have now, even though it's the same company, it's the same job, but just a different, like looking at as a new, as a new way of working makes it a little bit more exciting than thinking about the things that we've lost.

[00:25:35] Erika Bergen I'm not sure how we've known each other. We've known each other, um, since, uh, I don't know how long ago it was now. It's, yeah, it's been a long time. 

Uh, yeah, it's probably been 10 years since we met. Um, but then maybe 6 since we've worked together. But, since then, , your career has just really blossomed. I mean, you've been able to take on different challenges and move into [00:26:00] different roles.

Now you're fully remote, as you've mentioned. So you've been really successful in navigating your career and continuing to do the type of work that challenges you, but also work that you really love. And I think that's, that's the dream for most people, right? Like, I want to be able to have it all. I want to be able to work in the way that works for me and my body and my life.

And also be doing work that I love and not feel like I'm settling in the work. So what advice do you have for folks who are struggling to find that balance between having what they need, in their life

[00:26:38] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: hmm.

[00:26:39] Erika Bergen and what they want in their work?

[00:26:42] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: first, thank you for describing me that way.

 Because it's, I feel like it's one of those things where you can look back and you very clearly see all the stepping stones and say, oh, yes, I have built my career and look how easy and successful it was. You know, but it's all, it's like a myth. Um, I think that for [00:27:00] me, I mean, the career changes and steps and evolutions that I've gotten to do were really, Rooted in a lot of what's happening in the world and then where I personally wanted to go.

So, for example, uh, 2020. I was furloughed. thinking about like, , do I want to continue in the career that I currently have? Or what would I do if I could pivot a little bit? And in that moment, I really wanted to find a way to work in an environment where I was really focused on diversity and inclusion and belonging. And I kept thinking, what would that look like? Because a lot of the role that I had sort of had elements of that. I thought, well, what if I could go like, is there a thing where you go full time just working on that? And. As things continue to unfold in the world, an opportunity came up where I could be full time and my new title was really centered in inclusivity.

I thought, Oh my gosh, I did it. That's exactly what I wanted. I felt like I put it in the universe and here it came. And, [00:28:00] and of course it wasn't that simple. This is built on. think I had seven years of doing the work as what we called the kind of quote unquote side of the desk job, where I would volunteer to lead things.

I would join things. I was a part of sort of a think tank around these things. And so then when the role opened, I really, I did have years and years and years of experience to prove that I would be good at this new role that was being created, even though it felt in the moment, like, oh my gosh, like my wish came true.

But of course it's, you know, it's all, it's all about that preparation and opportunity at the right moment. Um,

[00:28:33] Erika Bergen you are a champion for DEI and you have been for many, many, many years before it was ever a part of your official job. I mean, I remember you starting an internship program essentially to build a more diverse, talent pipeline.

[00:28:48] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: Yep.

[00:28:48] Erika Bergen and these were things that you took on and built and championed and championed without anybody asking you to.

 So yes, you've definitely taken a ton. I just want to brag on you a little [00:29:00] bit because this was not just a wish come true

[00:29:03] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: I say that because I think I, you're right. Thank you for saying that. And I share it that way because I think that's a little bit of it too, of even the mindset of you might be looking for. And I say that because I know the real question was about being remote. How do you continue to build your career? so I think for me, it was really interesting because. As I was remote, and as I was looking for possible new opportunities, and then the opportunity felt like it found me, a lot of that was truly rooted in these relationships that I had built. And it was, you know, little did I know that someone was really championing me behind the scenes, and talked about my work to the person who needed to hear about it, to say, let's connect with her to see if she'd be interested in, in seeing this, if this role, you know, would be a fit. And so, I think that's a little bit of it is, That's true, whether you're in person or [00:30:00] remote. And so as you're remote, continuing to develop new relationships, meet the people who could be influential on your behalf, becoming a part of programs. You know, then I, I also directly then relate my newest role, another new role that was a title no one had before. I really attribute to that. getting connected into this role and into this world a sponsorship program that I was a part of. And so I had a sponsor and it was really centering, you know, the whole point of this program was for sort of this, senior, senior level cohort of people who are high potential, high performing, and helping them unlock. What that means for their career. And I was invited to be a part of this program. And so then meeting my sponsor. She was the one who really helped me distill even further. What do you like about your role? Where would you want to grow? What does that mean? Who are the kind of people you want to work with? What's the kind of manager that you want to have? Okay, now let's go find those people. [00:31:00] can you meet? That you think might be that kind of a manager who might be running that kind of a team that you would want to work for. And I'd never thought of a career that way before. I always thought, well, I should research a job opening or I should really work hard to get a good score so that I can get promoted was the only way I'd ever really thought of a career. so it was meeting and unlocking sort of through these relationships these opportunities came to me. And so I think I'd be willing to bet that that's true in person or remote. And so just finding that way, it can feel, I think it can feel a little different, but maybe even not because there's no sort of geographical boundaries when we're remote.

You can meet that very senior lead in the New York office it's not uncommon to just have a virtual coffee these days. That's not weird. You don't have to wait till the next chance that you get to travel to New York to meet them. So for me, that's really been it is understanding like how to make those relationships. And how to [00:32:00] build meaningful relationships that then start to show you things that you didn't know were a possibility.

[00:32:06] Erika Bergen That's great advice. Thank you for sharing that. And what an incredible program, and to have a sponsor who was asking you those types of questions those are gifts when people do that. I had great advice given to me by a professor once And it stuck, it was like the smallest piece of advice, but it stuck with me because it made me think so much more strategically about my career.

And it sounds like that was the type of conversation that you had too, someone who just removed the barriers and started just asking you, What do you want?

[00:32:37] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: Right. Which took a long time, and it was like six months of our relationship before I had an answer. I was like, what do you mean? I was like, I want to do good work, , you know? And she's like, no,

[00:32:46] Erika Bergen I want a promotion,

 I know that your work now is really centered and you said this in DEI what's your perspective, just a broad perspective on what do you think remote work brings to this conversation of [00:33:00] belonging and inclusivity in an organization?

[00:33:02] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: Oh, yeah, no, that's a wonderful, wonderful question, because I think remote work central to building a culture of belonging because now for the first time, especially I'll go back to the example of people living with disabilities or chronic illnesses, caregivers is another wonderful audience to think this through. A lot of times there's crossover there, whether you're a caregiver for children, aging parents, Another person with a disability caring for yourself. Suddenly, this is a whole population feels okay applying for a job at your company. If you offer remote or even hybrid opportunities and roles, because Create that sense that it is okay to ask for.

Like I said earlier, I was, you know, terrified to ask about being remote. Now I think that would not be uncommon at all to just ask, even like in the screener conversation with a recruiter, to ask, you know, what's the balance? How often are people coming in? What if I wanted to be fully remote? What if I needed it as a reasonable [00:34:00]accommodation? Like, they wouldn't be like, oh, well, why are you asking this? You know, it's like, probably everyone's asking this. thinking through that lens, remote work creates a whole population that has access to your jobs and people who are highly skilled your industry. You know, like I have my master's degree and now like more than 15 years of experience in this field I just happen to want to be remote. And that's no longer a huge barrier like it used to be. And I think there's probably a million reasons other communities that we could think through and talk about of why remote work could be important to any number of underrepresented, historically underrepresented communities. And I think it's really central to, to any sort of DEI mission or, you know, actual engagement of how you're trying to bring this to life for your company.

[00:34:51] Erika Bergen I'm glad you said that and, I also feel like there's the reverse culture benefit too, right? Where when you're in close physical [00:35:00] proximity to people, there can tend to, to start to be a group think that happens and, and it just, it's just natural for people who are just around each other a lot, right?

And so. that remote worker who's part of the team and part of the culture and just as invested in the work isn't going to fall into those same kind of biases 

So yes, you get, you can tap in to the best talent and all different types of abilities and all different types of geographies. And then you also just get a fresh. Look on your culture. It's like another way to hold the culture accountable, right? Because if it's not working for everyone if it's only working for the people who are physically next to each other Then chances are is that there's something broken in the culture Mm

[00:35:48] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: I really like that perspective. And two, I mean, I feel like, you know, there's both the both ways to look at it that for the person who's remote, maybe in person at a previous company, they [00:36:00] experienced micro aggressions and they're feeling really nervous about returning to the office. And so having a company that allows you to be remote or hybrid, can help reduce that anxiety and have the chance to show that in person at this company, hopefully you won't experience those things. Um, but then also the, you know, it's, I feel like it's easy to look at it only through the lens of the things we need to sort of mitigate for.

But I think what you just said is also spot on that. The truth is that it's hugely expansive for business to have the different minds and different opinions. of the people who, for whatever reason, may want to be remote and they can bring the ideas and their own culture or their own data or whatever it is that then expands the business and becomes new business opportunities or becomes the insight that allows The thing to reach more people or, you know, whatever your company does, um, I think that's the truth, like rather than just looking at it through the lens [00:37:00] of do we make sure everyone's okay, which we should do.

That's the foundation. But then the truth is if you like need the business reason for it, that it's wildly expansive for business. And I think that there's tons of proof . that you can create more or win more business or whatever the thing is that your company does. Having the people who just happen to want or need to be remote builds that up and excluding them, you know, it doesn't do you any favors.

[00:37:27] Erika Bergen Yeah. Yeah, I mean especially if they reflect the people you serve

[00:37:31] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: Exactly. Exactly.

 the last point I want to make is I think the heart, it's kind of like if I could leave one thing for people working remotely, you know, we talked about so many things. I've tried to go in or try to send a team's chat, whatever. the truth is find whatever brings you energy. in trying to reconnect with whatever that means of the like sort of in person element or the connection element. And I say that because I just got back from a conference, which was the first time traveling in a long time [00:38:00] since I had the second baby, it was a whole thing. I was there, I mean, want to say that meeting a lot of my teammates in real life, who I'd never met before, and just sitting and chatting, about strategy over lunch.

And it wasn't even a formal strategy. We sort of happened to talk about like, well, what about this? And what about that? And then chatting with someone, there was an award ceremony. And so afterward, it was literally after midnight and we were sitting, sharing big ideas for our company. And then we had to laugh and we're like, Oh my gosh, it's midnight. But it had this energy about it. And I was like, yeah, I miss people sometimes. And so for me, that my aha moment was, well, what if I traveled like once a year, whether it was through this conference, or if we created a meeting just for us to sit down and talk about strategy, like, I feel so energized and excited by that. And so whatever that is for you, because some people listening, like going to a conference might be physically, Not possible or for a million reasons that might not be their thing, but find what your thing is that kind of gives you that feeling of like,[00:39:00] Oh yeah, I've got like new life again in this job then just keep finding those things and that's all you really have to do.

[00:39:06] Erika Bergen Yeah, I love that. there are sometimes we get stuck in ruts, right, especially in remote work when we're not socializing the way that some of us do. are designed to do, um, and those, those little bursts of energy and, and following that is, is something to, to remember.

Um, let me ask you, because we didn't touch on this, you're a mom of two small kids. So how has that changed your, I mean, we, this is like a whole nother conversation because there's so much when it comes to having kids and being remote. And you've given us a glimpse into how that you've. How you've set aside some time during your day to enjoy your lunch with them.

What else have you found to be, what are some of your, maybe two, two or three learnings that you've had along the way as you've welcomed, very recently, [00:40:00] your second baby into your family?

[00:40:03] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: Yeah. Well, one thing I want to say for anyone who needs to hear this, it's okay to have a nanny. And that might sound ridiculous to those of you who already agree with that, but I was so, I don't know why I had it in my head of like, well, who am I to have a nanny? Like, don't like rich people have nannies?

I don't know. Anyway, get that out of your head. We found a way to afford someone who comes to our house and helps us. And that's what really unlocked that. Like, that's why I get to go have lunch with them. Yeah. Because we have care in our house, and it's magical and fabulous that I get to be around them without myself being their primary caretaker. And there was so much guilt around that for me that it, I just want to say that in case anyone needs to hear it. If you're thinking about getting a nanny, do it. I strongly encourage it. It's worked really well for us. Um, and I'm trying to

[00:40:48] Erika Bergen Yes, I can second that. there's nothing like having a support system in your home. Yeah.

[00:40:56] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: like, you know, Why not? Let's, let's get help in our home. That's [00:41:00] not a problem. If you, if you can make it work, if you can find a way financially or whatever, like make it work. Um, but then no, that's a good point that it has changed a lot just because then my own time has to be stretched in so many ways because I do sometimes I wish I could spend all day with them.

And so I do try to let myself just like take a day off every now and then. but then some days I'm like, Oh my gosh, if I could just work. For eight hours straight and no one needed me, you know, it's such a, it's such a funny balance that I didn't expect to have all these

[00:41:32] Erika Bergen Yeah.

[00:41:32] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: feelings that seem completely contradictory.

[00:41:36] Erika Bergen It's like you want to be with your kids, be like, get away from me.

[00:41:38] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: sometimes I'm like, I

[00:41:39] Erika Bergen I need to work.

[00:41:40] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: and then I want to have a meeting with my manager and then, you know, and I want to do this webinar.

[00:41:45] Erika Bergen And then I want to decompress before I have to go into mom mode.

[00:41:49] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: That's, yeah, that's the other hard one. And a lot of people say, you know, like design your own commute, whether it's going for a walk. I don't, I don't do those things. I think those thoughts, but I still don't actually take those [00:42:00] actions yet. I don't know that I do a really good job of transitioning from just finishing work. And then I just go upstairs and jump straight into mom mode. But that'll change too, as they get older. And right now I just, sometimes I'm just like, I want to be with my babies. And then the second I get upstairs, it's like, Oh, but can I go back down and do one more? You had such a funny, such a funny push and pull, but I will share too, that I did recently join a community orchestra and that has really helped me to get out of the house once a week to just go play clarinet and just be around to other adults playing music. And that's kind of my

[00:42:33] Erika Bergen Good for you. Yeah.

[00:42:34] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: about. I was like, well, at least, at least I go to orchestra on Thursdays, you know,

[00:42:38] Erika Bergen Yeah. That's my night. Yeah. That, that takes, you know, that takes some. boldness to be like, I'm going to carve out

[00:42:44] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: I'm

[00:42:44] Erika Bergen a night for myself consistently where I have to be out of the house to do this thing that I want to do for myself.

So yeah, that's, that's a great tip. Bravo for doing that.

[00:42:57] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: that was hard too. And as much as my husband [00:43:00] was like, yeah, of course, do it, go. And I'm like, are you sure you have to do both bedtimes without me? And he's like, yeah, it's like, I'm their dad. I can do that, you know, but I was just like, no, I think I'm so integral to this ecosystem.

He's like, you can go for hours on Thursday night, you know?

[00:43:14] Erika Bergen Yeah. So it sounds like for you, your learnings have been carving out some time for yourself. Thank you.

[00:43:22] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: Mm hmm.

[00:43:22] Erika Bergen during the week and, um, getting some help.

[00:43:26] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: Yes.

[00:43:27] Erika Bergen And then also finding some time during the day to just, to be mom and, and relish in the fact that you are remote and you have that flexibility and leaning into that and not feeling guilty giving yourself permission to do it.

[00:43:40] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: Exactly. I think that's the hardest piece. I definitely still, you know, grapple with the guilt, and it cuts both ways. I feel guilty that I don't spend more time with the kids, and then I feel guilty that I don't spend every waking minute, you know, on the company time, and I know that neither is true.

Like, my kids are okay, and also my company has a very flexible [00:44:00] culture, and like, they're okay too, and I, that's something I'm just untangling myself. 

[00:44:04] Erika Bergen Yeah, well, it's a journey. It's a journey. I appreciate you sharing your story with us and your journey through all of this. I think there's a lot of folks who are going to connect with your experience. And I think you've inspired some people out there to advocate for themselves and to dream a little in their careers.

So thank you.

[00:44:24] Danielle Cornejo Calhoun she/her: Thank you so much for having me. I just love, I love this podcast. So thank you. 

[00:44:27] Erika Bergen Thank you for listening. If you haven't already, please subscribe and you can go to workitremote. com to join the community.

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